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Toe in or Toe out ? and Camber

 
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Gregory Dzielinski



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 230
Location: United States, New Jersey, Ramsey

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Toe in or Toe out ? and Camber Reply with quote

I borrowed a laser alignment gauge.
For my sonís Cadet kart sprint racing (235 lbs) how much toe-in or toe-out should I set it for while its up on the stand?

And how about camber, positive or negitive or zero?

This is the first time I'v ever used this laser alignment guage

Thanks
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Matt Dixon



Joined: 21 May 2007
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Location: United States, California, Norcal

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put a little toe out in it.

Camber isn't a set thing the track and stopwatch determine that.
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Jim White



Joined: 21 Jul 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To do it right you need to do it on the ground with the driver in it. Most karts change both camber and toe quite a bit when "loaded".
I have done all my karts "loaded" on the ground. Then put them up on the stand and measured them unloaded. That way I have unloaded measurements and can set them up on the stand. Then I know it's right when on the ground in race ready condition.
Lot's more work but it makes for better repeatability and takes a variable out of the equation.
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al nunley



Joined: 13 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts were this; a 1/16 total toe in just to take up the slop in the system, hoping that they ended up straight up on the track. Last thing I thought is I donít want to drag the tires down the straight.
I canít see toe doing anything in the turns. The ackerman changes everything with the slightest movement of the steering wheel.
You can watch the grass grow, but it takes a long time to notice any change.
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Rob Kozakowski



Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 321
Location: Canada, Alberta, Edmonton

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

al nunley wrote:
My thoughts were this; a 1/16 total toe in just to take up the slop in the system, hoping that they ended up straight up on the track. Last thing I thought is I donít want to drag the tires down the straight.
I canít see toe doing anything in the turns. The ackerman changes everything with the slightest movement of the steering wheel.
You can watch the grass grow, but it takes a long time to notice any change.


On the older karts, a little toe-in was pretty standard. I think anyone who's been around long enough to have run an American made chassis in the 80's will attest to that.

Almost all newer (Euro?) karts come with factory recommendations to run in a range of slight toe-out (1-2 mm, maybe more if harder tires) to toe "neutral".

Generally, camber on the stand will be set a little positive. Loaded on the ground, you should be at neutral to slightly negative camber.

Basically, if you start with everything neutral on the ground, you're going to have a decent baseline and you'll never be too far off.
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TJ Koyen



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 1500

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toe-out will help the kart react on turn-in.
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Tim Koyen
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Joined: 26 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today's karts will toe-in when you put them on the ground, so you want to start with some toe-out. On a cadet, you're trying to keep the rolling resistance to a minimum, so ideally, I think you want zero toe on the ground. Toe out does help turn a kart, but I think that's more applicable to full size karts where you have considerably more HP. With extremely low HP, IMHO, toe should be neutral.

Caster/camber, as mentioned above, are tuning tools. Like Toe-in, increased caster increases scrub resistance, and typically you want cadet/sports/rookie karts to use very little caster, perhaps even using pills to take caster out. These are general statements, and for sure there are people who use a lot of caster and are fast, so the only way you can really tell, is to test it yourself. It will likely change as the track grip conditions change as well, so don't get too committed to anything.
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